Do you think Cain is still a take for Michigan if he does decide he wants to come here? I thought the plan was always to take 2 players in this class with the ability to play the 3/4 but maybe that changed with the Matthews commitment. I still think they should take Cain especially since we have no real shot with Bowen or Jackson and obviously Wilkes already eliminated us.
I donāt think thatās the distinction. Obviously thatāll have an impact on the projection of our 2018-19 season, but Cain or the 2018 recruit would be here for more than just that season, most likely. I think you can pretty much compare them straight up.
Iām fine if we take Cain. I think he is pretty much equal to some of our realistic targets for the 2018 class on the perimeter. I think he could be in a tough spot for minutes if he does come here because I donāt think he can play the four (on the defensive end) due to his weight/strength. So weāre looking at the 2/3 and thereās alot of competition in those spots.
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Def think he can fulfill an Irvin role as a FR for 10-12 mins per game. As a sophomore think he can compete for 20-25 mins per night assuming strength gain because heās a better offensive player in terms of scoring in relation to Matthews
How much has he gained over the summer? If heās anywhere near where the sites have his weight listed, I think thatād be a tough ask against any non-stretch four. And his frame doesnāt look like it could really handle adding 30 pounds. Iām no S&C expert though.
I think he could definitely have the Irvin-type role in terms of minutes. But itād have to come at the 2 or 3 and not the 4.
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I think heās a 3, whereas you think (or perhaps youāre assuming the staff thinks heās a 4), which probably accounts for our differing ideas on PT. FWIW the staff expressly told him the view him as a 2/3. Heās up to 182 at this point. Ideally, I think Jamal gets up to the 195-200 range, which is really good for a SF with his athleticism.
Also, Scout updated their rankings today and Cain came in at #138 and 6 spots from 4 star territory. Poole dropped to #120, Livers at #173
Do you think he can compete with Matthews for minutes at the 3 because Cain brings things that the staff likes (shooting/maybe handle)? Because Matthews seems like exactly the kind of athletic/motor/defensive stopper that youāve been asking for. If the staff also sees the need for the type of player (which you would think they do, since they brought in Matthews), it seems a bit ambitious to think that Cain could unseat Matthews.
I suppose your 20-25 minutes could also account for time at the 2 but (being a major Poole fan) I think he would struggle to take those minutes from Poole.
As a freshman, I would fully expect Matthews to get the bulk of the time at the 3, hands down. But assuming strength/muscle gains of 10-15 lbs, I think Jamal can get 20-25 minutes per night as a sophomore with MAAR leaving, with Poole, Matthews, Watson, competing for time at the 2/3. I donāt think its a stretch to say he may get more minutes than Poole at all. He will be better defensively on the perimeter from the time they hypothetically walk in the door, a much better rebounder, a better finisher, and probably a better shooter. Only thing Poole would have on him is handle and passing. With a year in S & C and development, definitely think Jamal has the higher ceiling of the 2
Rather than debate who is better between Poole and Cain, because I doubt either of us are going to change our minds, Iāll ask you the ānextā question in determining the value of adding Cain: how do you think his career production compares to the class of 2018 (Ryan, Carmody, Cohill, Johns)? And, if there is anything to share on the matter, what is your understanding of the staffās stance on the same question?
I think Cain will be a very nice player, and as youāre always quick to point out, the āpotentialā is obviously there. But we seem to be getting mutual interest from some real players in 2018.
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Iāll put it this way and hopefully you can read between the lines in terms of interest. The 2 players that REALLY want an offer do not have one - Dwayne Cohill and Kevin Easley.
Iām not sold on Johns AT ALL. He has a below average handle, above average shooter, below average rebounder, below average defender, below average motor. He definitely has some tools that can be developed, but he is very timid on the court when facing legit competition. His initial rankings all came before playing EYBL. It was very obvious to me that the speed and athleticism of EYBL tremendously impacted his production. That said, heās only a junior to be, and he has time to develop, I just donāt see a top 30 type in any way, shape or form. In the UM context, I think Johns is a lot like DJ, they will try to force him to be a 4, and heās simply not that. Donāt think he has the skill or athleticism to be a 2/3.
Definitely think Cain has more upside in relation to Johns.
Ryan - definitely like his game, heās essentially a white Jordan Poole with less toughness/physicality, but more athletic. Donāt think heāll be instant impact at all. Plays vs suspect competition and is disturbed when people get in his chest. Much like Cain, he needs strength/muscle in a major way. Definitely has upside as a 2, but heās only 6ā3 and is strictly a 2 rather than a 3.
Carmody - definitely think he has the best chance to be an instant impact because he has a college ready frame and motor. B10 wonāt be a huge transition for him, because he plays at game level speed and intensity ALL THE TIME.
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Was Cain on an official this weekend?
Jamal Cain now a 4 star on ESPN, and likely will be a top 100 player when rankings are updated. For all you rankings guys (ahemā¦John Miller), letās see how that 247 composite looks when its updated to account for this. Cain now #74 on Rivals, #138 on Scout, 4 star on ESPN.
Contrary to what some of you thought, Cain actually rose up the 247 internal rankings to #165 (was 200), his composite dropped to 208 due to ESPN incompetence in failing to either a) watch Cain or b) too lazy to update their database. Either way, he looks to be a top 125 composite easily at this point.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/224960/jamal-cain
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I do love me some rankings. Why hasnāt he picked a school yet? Is there a reason or is he just going through the process?
Just going through the process.
Never being good enough to experience it, seems itād be a fun process to go through.
Honestly, now that heās had a full summer of exposure, and the rankings have been adjusted to a good extent (although I suspect heāll rise more now that heās on the radar), and youāve seen film - What are your thoughts toward his game? Curious to get your input because you were very stubborn on him initially, then you seen he could shoot and came around a bit, and now it seems the rankings are aligning with my 60-80 assessment?
And this is why I say the 247 composite is complete BS. In one day, based on one service, Jamal Cain will go from 208 on 247 composite to somewhere around 120ish. Thatās roughly a 100 spot swing based on 1 service. No way should a kid have a 100 spot swing based on 1 service, as MHoops said. Thatās insane
I like Cainās game. I still do not believe he can be an upper tier big ten player(top 20/25 guy). We have enough āgoodā players coming in, this team needs a big time talent. Maybe by his junior/senior years he could be playing 30 minutes a night, but does he want to wait that long to play?
As you know, I think Watson can be pretty darn close to the player that Cain will be. Iām pretty impressed with the weight he has already put on in his first summer. Can Cain do the same? We will have to see.
We certainly need a big time talent, but I believe Cain can be an upper tier B10 player. He has NBA level athleticism, good shooter, and above average handle at that size. If Jamal can add 15lbs of muscle/strength he has more potential than anyone in our current 17 class in my opinion