Zak Irvin's struggles... Got to get better

Oh, you have a different definition of crazy than me haha. But back on topic, he’s shown the vision to hit baseline cutters off the drive several times this year so there’s definitely potential somewhere there.

Wilson definitely shows promise. He’s made a few impressive passes while driving. But neither he nor Robinson are guys who can consistently create for others, at least at this stage in their development. Well, Duncan probably is what he is in that regard, but Wilson might improve.

But Walton has a 22.6% assist rate and Irvin has a 17.7% assist rate. X can pick up some of the slack, but where else is it going to come from?

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Pray that Poole and Brooks are ready to step up. Sucks to rely on Freshmen, but it is what it is.

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I agree with your analysis of GR3. And even as his efficiency became worse as a sophomore, he was still a much better player than Irvin has been this year.

It’s tough to really draw any conclusions from Mathews’ play last year, as he was stuck in a guard rotation behind Murray, Ulis, and Briscoe, all of whom were five star recruits. I don’t see Zak Irvin cracking that lineup, either.

I don’t think we’re going to need to rely on Mathews to be a passer or a consistent three point threat. I see him as a slasher, and someone who can create his own offense at the rim off the dribble. I was looking last night, and in 2011/12 Tim Hardaway averaged nearly 15 a game shooting only 28% from three. That’s not real efficient (he shot .419 overall, which is also not great), but he was still a good scorer for us.

The problem with Zak right now is, for the most part, he can’t do anything out there. He’s throwing the ball away passing it, he dribbles it out of bounds, his shot is way off, he gets blocked going to the rim - it’s generally a disaster. To be honest, in most games he’s a net negative on offense. Mathews will probably have limitations, but I do at least expect him to be able to finish at the rim, and be the beneficiary of residual looks.

I also have a feeling Simpson is going to be really adept at creating looks for others. I see it already. He’s a step quicker than Walton, and he’s finally getting comfortable. What that has meant is that in the pick and roll, he’s been able to either finish with a layup, or if help comes, find an open guy. I think his continued ability to do that will be huge for Mathews.

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Well, what we’re really doing is substituting Simpson, Poole, Mathews and Brooks for Walton and Irvin.

I’ll take that trade off, no problem at all.

And then I guess Teske/Davis for Donnal.

Not sure what Livers will do next year with Wilson/Robinson seemingly blocking his path toward playing time. With that said, I could see Robinson backing up the three and Livers the four if Livers shows the staff he’s too good to redshirt for a year. And he just might, I think he’s got huge upside.

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I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but I also think that senior Zak Irvin on the 2013-14 team would be quite a bit better than senior Zak Irvin on the 2016-17 team. Conversely, GR3 on this team would not be as efficient as GR3 on the 2013-14 team. GR3 was a finisher–an elite one. But he was not a creator.

When Zak wasn’t tasked with being a creator, he was pretty good at the one thing he had to do on offense. He had a 118.9 ORtg on 22% usage his freshman year.

Agreed that Matthews gets an incomplete from his freshman year. I still would have liked to have seen him get more PT. Although, I guess he might not be here if he did. Zak got 15 mpg behind Stauskas and Levert.

I’ve noticed no one has mentioned Ibi contributing next year. Has everyone already written him off? I’m hopeful he will have an impact.

Interesting. I’d think in the role of a designated three point gunner, having a 30% three point shooter who badly misses wide open looks would be a poor decision.

The Irvin for Mathews trade has been discussed as nauseam, so let’s forget that for a second.

But Simpson, Poole, and Brooks for Walton and Simpson? I don’t know. You must feel really strongly about Matthews, because Walton has been really good this year.

Maybe I’m the only one but I’m looking forward to X/MO and X/DJ pnr/pnp next year. I think the game is slowing down for X quite a bit and he has vision that shows signs of being quite impressive.

Or, you know, he might shoot 42.5% in that designated role. Like he did in 2013-14.

Or, you know, he might shoot 30% from three like he has the past two seasons. His form is nothing like it used to be. You can’t just stick him on a different team and expect him to start making the wide open shots that he misses by a foot right now.

Not sure if he’s going to be better overall but I’d be willing to bet that anyone of us would put money on the line that CM has more dunks and gets blocked at the rim quite a bit less.

No, I haven’t written him off completely. But if I had to guess, he won’t be able to beat out Duncan, Mathews, and Poole for playing time. Could be a contributor later in his career. Seems like a solid athlete, but his shot is a little weird and far more importantly, it doesn’t seem to go in all that often.

I can. It’s not like it was a small sample size. The guy jacked up 146 3s in 568 minutes of game time his freshman year. As the team’s second option, his 3 point shooting percentage was at 36% when Levert went down the following season, and then started to dip after that.

He was a much better shooter when he was a designated gunner.

I’ll say this - during the summer trip to Italy in 2014, Zak’s numbers were great and his shot looked good. That was with Caris playing alongside him. And during the first couple games that fall, he played well. But then I remember several games where suddenly, he couldn’t make an open look from three. (Syracuse, Nova, and Oregon immediately come to mind). And that was before he had to adjust his role to compensate for Caris’ injury.

I agree, he was a great shooter his freshman year. At some point early in his sophomore year, it just disappeared. But even two years ago, and last year once his form came back a little (after his back injury rustiness), you could count on him to make shots. Right now, his shot looks awful. I hope he gets it together. I can’t imagine making an NCAA run without at least 1-2 games of good play from him. With that said, in our huge, blowout wins lately (MSU, IU, Purdue - I know they cut it down to 6 late, but we were blowing them out for a huge portion of that game), Zak has been nearly non-existent and the team has been playing great.

Great job, you have 100% convinced me that Zak Irvin used to be a good shooter!

You mean Simpson, right?

I do. I think he brings an element of elite quickness and great body control in the lane that Walton doesn’t have. Of course, Walton is a far superior outside shooter and a great rebounder. I also think Simpson has the potential to be an elite on-ball defender due to his quickness.

But mainly, I look at it like this - it’s literally a four for two trade. No one will be as good as Walton, probably, but I think all of Mathews, Poole and Brooks will bring more to the table than Zak is currently, at least on offense. (I will say Zak’s defense has been pretty good, and his rebounding too). And MAAR has been quietly playing great lately too, which has helped our offense tremendously.

Exactly. When he was a designated shooter. Like I said in the post you responded to.

Or when his form looked completely different and before he had a broken shot. I was under the impression that we were putting this year’s Irvin onto the 2014 team, like you said. Have you ever watched him in warm ups? It’s really not much better. For someone who complains nonstop about the hypothetical of Matthews being better than Irvin, you sure are clinging to this 2014 thing.

Edit: I’m not even sure what the purpose of this little activity of yours is… Obviously the people who think Irvin is the second coming of Christ think senior year Irvin would excel on the 2014 team and the others who think Irvin is as good as he plays think he would do poorly. You’re really not gonna change anyone’s opinion with that.