Zak Irvin's struggles... Got to get better

How much spittle is covering your keyboard right now? A lot, I bet.

I was having a back-and-forth with Hail when you interjected like his white knight. That was pretty clearly in reference to what Hail had written. You must be taking those “paper classes” at UNC.

EDIT: a point of clarification, before this turns into an argument. The last line was meant to be light-hearted.

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Oh I guarantee his intentions were to help the team. Zak’ a great kid, just sometimes too confident.

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Thank you, that’s all I was trying to get at. The quality of a shot/whether a shot should should’ve been taken is at least debatable, but I wanted to shut down any negative insinuations about Zak’s intentions, which are positive and absolute.

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Yeah, I really hope it’s not the viewpoint of anybody here that he’s selfish. I just don’t think his bbiq is great.

I’ll go beyond that–that was a wide open, step in, during transition 3 which players hit at a much higher rate than 3s in a half court setting. If you don’t take that, you’re allowing opposing teams to crash the offensive glass with impunity because you’re making it clear that you won’t utilize superior numbers in transition if the additional guy is Irvin. I know how badly he’s shooting, but if he’s in the game, he has to take that particular shot at any time outside the 5 minute mark. I have some quibbles about some of the other shots he took, but not that one at all.

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Also, we are forgetting that players earn their minutes and the proverbial green light in practice. It’s an inconvenient argument, since we can’t see what goes on there, save for the occasional mention of The Gun by Coach in his pressers.

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GOOD GRIEF some of you are unbelievable. Ya’ll jump on guestavo and MattD over recruiting/anti-Beilein sentiments yet hijack every thread about statistics and it gets so long and drawn out that I wonder if some of you even know what you’re arguing about. Then you argue about what each said and what they really meant and blah blah blah…

As far as I’m concerned, Irvin has to play. He has to keep shooting. I’d like him to attack the hoop a little more, try and get easier buckets, see the ball go through the hoop, get to the FT line, and maybe mix in a stepback jumper. Though I’m sure now someone will pull some stat out of their @$$ about why that won’t fit into some douchebag formula…

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How are stats bad? One can definitely argue the merits of individual ones but how is pulling out someone’s field goal percentage bringing up a “douche bag formula”? Denying the use of statistics in general certainly is… new and unique.

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Wait, I’m confused…Were they jumping all over Matt D’s sentiments or the sentiments of Matt D’s friend that was apparently posting on his account? :confused:

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I bring you all exhibit A.

I never said stats are bad. I never denied them.

[quote=“JBlair52, post:211, topic:2301, full:true”]As far as I’m concerned, Irvin has to play. He has to keep shooting. I’d like him to attack the hoop a little more, try and get easier buckets, see the ball go through the hoop, get to the FT line, and maybe mix in a stepback jumper. Though I’m sure now someone will pull some stat out of their @$$ about why that won’t fit into some douchebag formula…
[/quote]

I’ll start with dessert first. I don’t have a problem with this take on Irvin at all. A Zak Irvin with his head screwed on right raises the ceiling for this team. It’s tough to see him struggle more than me at the CCRB, but for many reasons, I agree–he’s not getting benched.

Stats have their purpose in our discussions, though. Do some posters use their handpicked stats as a shield in our banter? Sure. But at times it sure beats the eye test–or worse, logging onto this forum after a 30 point win and saying there is nothing they like about the program. Which leads me to…

[quote=“JBlair52, post:211, topic:2301, full:true”]
GOOD GRIEF some of you are unbelievable. Ya’ll jump on guestavo and MattD over recruiting/anti-Beilein sentiments yet hijack every thread about statistics and it gets so long…[/quote]

By inserting Guestavo and both of the MattDs in this conversation, you’re trying to make one post do too much work. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my short time here is that none of these guys need any help defending themselves.

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What other stat has been “pulled out of their ass” besides field goal percentage? If you think that’s too crazy of a stat to use then it’s only logical to say that you believe all stats more complicated (AKA every other stat) are also bad. I ask this question because I might have missed someone pulling actual douchebag formula type stats out. If I’m wrong about this please just quote them and I’ll concede.

I agree with your premise (I think it is at least. Again, correct me if this is wrong) that stats aren’t the end all but I don’t think it really applies to this discussion.

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Just the fact that you imply you won’t concede unless I prove myself pretty much sums up what I’m saying.

Are you kidding? Why would someone change their minds without evidence presented? That’s insane. And given that you won’t, I’m assuming you can’t. The fact that you won’t give evidence pretty much sums up what I’m saying.

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lol not everything’s a debate.

So what would you call this? Why even post opinions if you don’t want people reacting to them? And if someone who reacts to it disagrees, it only makes sense to explain why they disagree, yes? This was specifically cited as why the disagree button’s disappearance in the forum’s new format was a positive.

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wolverheel is correct. I apologize for my random tangent. Carry on everyone…

Zak looked like he had so much lift and energy in his shot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py9MHdTY7CM …and I didn’t realize he could dunk.

stop shooting Irvin

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give Zak’s minutes to Duncan Robinson