Fair enough, thanks Matt. Do you think kids in general (no need to get specific) are ok with hearing from the staff on the reg, and not just the Head Coach?
Think it depends on the relationship with the assistant, if its strong, then less communication from the HC may suffice. Generally speaking though, you probably want the HC to have a strong presence in recruiting IMO.
I agree it looks bad if you flip flop but thatâs Beileinâs issue and why he did it in first place. Part of it is treating players with respect and dignity and not like a piece of meat. Donnal will be counted on a lot next year. I like Wagner but itâs a big jump from 2-3 good games to playing consistently well for 30+. This isnât including Teske/Davis which one of them likely gets redshirted. Donnal is a lot more talented than Bielfeldt and we all saw how that turned out. Donnal has seen teammates like Horford, Albrecht, and Bielfeldt not getting 5th years no doubt a guy pays attention to that.
Yes, we should really learn how to treat players with respect and not talk about them like theyâre pieces of meat, right? Anyway, Iâm glad you didnât try to salvage the argument that everything with Donnal will be decided by SeptemberâŚ
So what youâre saying itâs ethical to change the eligibility of a player midway through their stint as a college athlete? You still donât get it he played well last year and his reward is to have his eligibility up in the air for what might be his final year? Thatâs a terrific way to handle your roster.
What? Horford was not a case of ânot getting [his] 5th year[]ââthey counted on him and he chose to leave. Bielfeldt didnât get his 5th year because they wanted to give more time to Donnal, the guy youâre now claiming is âa lot more talented than Bielfeldt.â Honestly, if you want to criticize Beilein from a basketball perspective for not re-offering Bielfeldt, or in not finding a way to keep Spike (who I donât think would have stayed, but thatâs another debate), thatâs fineâthere are things with recruiting, roster management, defense, etc. which are fair gameâbut not treating players with respect and dignity? John Beilein? Seriously?
Mark Donnal will likely be offered a fifth year in one of two scenariosâhe beats out Wagner and starts this year, or he backs up Wagner who plays so well that he moves on to play in the pros. Otherwise, heâll have gotten four years, a degree, and an opportunity to play and go to grad school elsewhere rather than sitting on the bench at michigan.
Iâm curiousâhave you complained about the way football has handled fifth years over the years from Bo to Jim Harbaugh? Because there have been hundreds of football players who redshirted as freshmen and were never offered a fifth year. Is Jim treating those guys unethically? Did Tom Izzo treat Herzog, Byrd, Gauna, etc. unethically when they didnât get fifth years at MSU? Or is it just Beilein?
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Horford wasnât offered a 5th year? Thatâs news to me.
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Again, Iâm happy to read that youâve developed such an appreciation for fairness to players!
I donât think itâs unethical to give a player four years of scholarship. The exact definition of his roster status is really beside the point. He could be called a RS Jr or a SR and then leave or not be offered a fifth year. I would probably recommend just referring everybody by the year they enter â i.e., not bothering with the RS designation â and then offering 5th years as appropriate. But being honest is the key, and I have no reason to believe JB hasnât been.
And yes, I believe itâs ethical to preserve for a player his fifth year of eligibility by not giving him some garbage time his freshman year but then deciding itâs not the in the best interest of the school to offer a fifth year.
And yes, I believe itâs reasonable as roster management to remind a player such as Donnal knows halfway through his career that a fifth year isnât guaranteed and not to change that after a good but not exceptional third year given the current roster make-up and wait and see how things shake out.
Best to just give this one up. I know Iâm done with it.
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In regards to Harbaugh these arenât guys he recruited. I am sure everybody that comes in to Michigan understands the score and he started immediately to classify guys as fr/so/jr/sr there is no rs. In regards to Donnal it looks awful to change midway through his stint. Would you say itâs respectful of a coach to change a players eligibility during his stay? So in your scenario itâs extremely unlikely Donnal gets his 5th year. I donât like the way Izzo does things either but he really hasnât had 10 players transfer over the past few years with this year being the exception. Itâs hard to see how a coach can be seen blameless in this.
If you think Harbaugh is going to stop giving âfirm handshakesâ when âhis guysâ get to be seniors, you are going to be very surprised.
Scholarships are guaranteed for 4-years. Not 5. The 5th year is completely discretionary. There is absolutely nothing unethical about not offering a 5th year.
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There is not a program in America, be it basketball or football, which does not make fifth year guys earn scholarships. Not one. That is not unethical or lacking respect or anything else. Jim Harbaugh pulled a scholarship offer HE made in writing to Eric Swenson before Swenson could even sign. Iâll guarantee you that if Harbaugh is here in 5 years (and I hope he is and expect he will be), there will be guys not getting fifth years and guys who transfer out of the class. 40% of college basketball players transfer. Do you want to count up the Beilein guys since he got here and see if it reaches 40%? It doesnât, and thatâs counting fifth year guys who are never counted in those stats.
We had 3 underclassmen transfer this year. Aubrey Dawkins transferred to play for his dadâIâm not sure how Beilein can be blamed for USF hiring Johnny Dawkins. Chatman and Doyle transferred to UDM and FGCU respectively, because they werenât going to play at Michigan and they could play at a lower level. In the 3 years before this, the only guys who transferred were 5th year guysâwe hadnât had an underclass transfer since Christian and Brundidge back in 2012, both of whom again went to lower level schools to seek to play. Youâd think that if Beilein was treating guys like âpieces of meat,â they wouldnât be staying 4 years and hoping for a fifth.
You can have the last word. As I said, I can see complaints on a variety of topics related to actual basketball. I canât see this one.
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Thatâs because itâs not true. Itâs best if we just ignore him until his rant is over.
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For context in this, and to answer an earlier question, Georgia Tech (a very good academic school) just offered Brian Bowen without a visit. Obviously not applicable to all non-UM schools, but nevertheless reflects on the fact that weâre behind the times in that regard
Yes. Letâs aspire to be more like Georgia Tech basketball.
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Um, no please.
Point taken. Zack Dawson just received an offer from Iowa State without a visit. Now letâs see if you can handle this point - we WISH we could be like Iowa State
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Letâs not bring this offer discussion to every thread.
There are things that I would argue to change about Michiganâs recruiting approach, but I just donât think the offer thing is high on the list. The bottom line is that an âofferâ from many schools is just an invitation to visit.
Maybe the transcripts thing is a legitimate hurdle, but if it is thereâs probably a reason why.
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No offense Dylan, but you did sort of stir the glass with the sarcasm on Wilkes
No conference championships, 2 sweet sixteens, and no elite eights in the past 15 years? Iâll pass.
Sure, but didnât expect it to throw the whole topic off track so moved everything over here.