Seriously, just complaining to complain now.
A few weeks ago people were complaining about how we had too many scholarships tied up with non-B10 caliber players. Three leave the program, and those same people are now wringing their hands about player retention. Laughable.
And complaining about players leaving early to be drafted? Ok.
I never complained, not once. I simply questioned WHY attrition is so high. If you take that as a complaint, that’s on you. Your defense of the guy is funny. You’re so worked up about the guy that you create semi-contentious matters. Its funny to be honest.
Step back from the ledge, everybody. We have a roster today that is good enough to compete for a B1G championship. Most teams play an 8 or 9 man rotation. We have all 5 starters back from a team that won 23 games last year plus 4 stars Wagner, Simpson and Wilson, Watson, Teske, Davis.
If we get hit again with injuries at positions where we are thin, we could have problems, but that is true of most teams.
This next six week period, could prove to be a great springboard forward (coaching hires and new players) or not. Until then, I will not be losing sleep over this.
“I think a fair question at this point is WHY JB can’t seem to retain talent and/or depth?”
“But other coaches seemingly retain guys with similar talent (NBA) and role/marginal players at a much higher rate.”
But, sure, you weren’t complaining. Laughable.
Question for You Alum - are my questions legit? In other words, are my points true or not?
Who are the other coaches that are able to retain their NBA talent? Izzo is the only one I can think of off the top of my head that regularly keeps NBA level players despite interest from the league.
And honestly, I don’t know if JB is really that bad at it. Trey Burke stayed for a second year. So did GR3 and McGary.
Edit: Caris too.
Do other coaches retain marginal bench players at a higher rate? I’m sure some do. Many certainly don’t. Is that a good thing? Debatable. Jim Harbaugh would probably say turning over marginal players is probably a good thing.
Do other coaches retain NBA talent at a better rate? Honestly, probably only a couple. Izzo, probably, but who else?
Ok, let’s isolate it to transfers then. Why? And for the record, I’m not complaining AT ALL. I’m all in support of Spring Creaning - you do what you have to do in order to make the program better. If that means telling a kid the harsh reality that he will play a diminished or marginal role in order to discretely imply that transferring may be best for all parties, then by all means, do it.
I’m not sure that’s completely accurate, Matt. To look at some of our principal competitors in the Big Ten:
OSU has lost 4 of the 5 members of it’s 15 class after one season, lost it’s only '12 recruit after 2 (to go back to Europe), lost the crown jewel of its '14 class to the NBA after 1 season, and lost Deshawn Thomas, who didn’t even get drafted, to early entry. That followed a string of one and dones, from Odom to Conley to Cook to Koufos to Mullins. Is that better?
MSU has done better at retaining NBA players…until this year, when Davis left after a freshman season when he didn’t even average 20 minutes a game. Also, Bess and Clark transferred out. Harris left early on the same schedule as Burke, Stauskas, Robinson and McGary.
Indiana has been a revolving door throughout Crean’s tenure.
Wisconsin has kept its players around. However, I can’t imagine that you would have spoken highly of most of the recruits they got in high school.
Maryland lost 5 kids to transfer just 2 years ago. Len left after 2 years, as did Stoglin (he, like McGary, was facing a drug suspension), and Stone and Carter left after 1 year in a Terp uniform. Trimble is yet to be determined. I’m not seeing it there either.
I agree with you - that’s what I’m trying to tell you, I’m in support of getting rid of the non-contributors. You’re all worked up man, calm down.
I LOVE Harbaugh’s approach. If you can’t produce, and you’re not happy with your role, then leave. That is the harsh reality of sports in general.
This is a very fair point, just seems odd that so many kids that, if we’re being honest, lack talent, would go elsewhere.
So we all love pros and you are in favor of getting rid of non-contributors, what exactly are we questioning?
Just questioning narrative that players love JB - perhaps that isn’t the case.
Part of it has to be on missed evals. JB has hit on quite a few late commits and diamonds in the rough (as well as being on kids before anybody else was). But he has his fair share of duds too - McLimans, Vogrich, Christian, etc.
I don’t mind the mutually beneficial parting of ways. Spots gotta be filled by better players though. But it’s not like JB is the only coach to whiff on some evaluations.
Alum please point out those people?
You can’t.
Understood. I actually took issue with it more so because I don’t necessarily think we retain players at a worse rate than our peers (although I don’t have any stats–I’m just thinking off of recall). MHoops summarized my thoughts more eloquently than I did.
And I actually think that losing both Kam and Dawkins will hurt us in the short term, but hopefully not the long term. I also think that these departures won’t do us any good if we don’t bring in higher caliber players.
You don’t think people were complaining that we had too many scholarships tied up with non-B10 players? Even JB supporters were lamenting that fact. I certainly thought so.Do I really need to go back and search?
You said those same people are complaining about the recent transfers… That just isn’t true.
As much as you like to point the finger at MattD, myself and a few others about taking shots at JB,
You are just as bad at inventing accusations.
I think this forum’s discussion on the transfers/roster management is solid all around. There’s no right or wrong side.
What, in these transfers, tells you that these guys didn’t love JB?