I still find it hard to come to a conclusion after a few minutes of video. Yes he’s aggressive but in the B1G he will be facing guys like AJ Hammons, Diamond Stone, Deyonta Davis, Alex Olah etc… If we were to go by the word of people Donnal would be better than Nigel Hayes since Donnal dominated him in high school. Now 2 years later Donnal can’t get much run and Hayes might be on the verge of declaring for the draft.
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
He recruited but didn’t offer Stone.
He recruited but didn't offer Stone.
Stone never made it to campus. He knew that he’d get an offer when he did.
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
Well, if a Final 4 is the goal / expectation, then:
Coach Cal should be fired for his Kentucky team missing the NCAAT two seasons ago.
Coach K should have been fired before this season for only making it to the Elite 8 twice in 10 season between 2005 and 2014.
Coach Izzo should have been fired for missing the Final 4 four straight seasons.
Do you see my point? Even the elite programs and coaches don’t have those lofty expectations for their coaches. Think about it… Coach K, at DUKE, made the Elite 8 twice in 10 seasons.
I said before that an average of 2 NCAAT wins a season, over 3 year spans, would keep me happy. An average of a Sweet 16 appearance every season, but span it over 3 years to account for “rebuilding” years. There are only about 8 to 12 programs that achieve this feat and I think that’s exactly there territory Michigan is at as a program.
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
Well, if a Final 4 is the goal / expectation, then:
Coach Cal should be fired for his Kentucky team missing the NCAAT two seasons ago.
Coach K should have been fired before this season for only making it to the Elite 8 twice in 10 season between 2005 and 2014.
Coach Izzo should have been fired for missing the Final 4 four straight seasons.Do you see my point? Even the elite programs and coaches don’t have those lofty expectations for their coaches. Think about it… Coach K, at DUKE, made the Elite 8 twice in 10 seasons.
Well Izzo has made the sweet sixteen 7 of the past 8 years, Calipari 4 Final Fours in 6 years, Coach K 2 titles in 6 seasons. If you choose a super small sample size Beilein probably matches up well since he made a championship game and elite eight. Beilein in his long career still does not match up with your example. Beilein has missed the tournament more times in 8 seasons than Izzo, Coach K, and Calipari have in the past 33 seasons collectively.
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
Well, if a Final 4 is the goal / expectation, then:
Coach Cal should be fired for his Kentucky team missing the NCAAT two seasons ago.
Coach K should have been fired before this season for only making it to the Elite 8 twice in 10 season between 2005 and 2014.
Coach Izzo should have been fired for missing the Final 4 four straight seasons.Do you see my point? Even the elite programs and coaches don’t have those lofty expectations for their coaches. Think about it… Coach K, at DUKE, made the Elite 8 twice in 10 seasons.
Well Izzo has made the sweet sixteen 7 of the past 8 years, Calipari 4 Final Fours in 6 years, Coach K 2 titles in 6 seasons. If you choose a super small sample size Beilein probably matches up well since he made a championship game and elite eight. Beilein in his long career still does not match up with your example. Beilein has missed the tournament more times in 8 seasons than Izzo, Coach K, and Calipari have in the past 33 seasons collectively.
You are moving the goalposts. You are trying to spin this into a debate between Beilein and Coach K, Cal, and Izzo. That is insane. Those are three of the best coaches in college basketball history.
Again, I’ll state my very simple to understand point. If an elite coach (Coach K) at an elite program (Duke) only makes 2 Elite 8s between 2005 and 2014, then how is it fair to demand/expect Beilein (a good, but not elite coach) at Michigan (a good, but not elite program) to make the Final 4 every season?
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
Well, if a Final 4 is the goal / expectation, then:
Coach Cal should be fired for his Kentucky team missing the NCAAT two seasons ago.
Coach K should have been fired before this season for only making it to the Elite 8 twice in 10 season between 2005 and 2014.
Coach Izzo should have been fired for missing the Final 4 four straight seasons.Do you see my point? Even the elite programs and coaches don’t have those lofty expectations for their coaches. Think about it… Coach K, at DUKE, made the Elite 8 twice in 10 seasons.
Well Izzo has made the sweet sixteen 7 of the past 8 years, Calipari 4 Final Fours in 6 years, Coach K 2 titles in 6 seasons. If you choose a super small sample size Beilein probably matches up well since he made a championship game and elite eight. Beilein in his long career still does not match up with your example. Beilein has missed the tournament more times in 8 seasons than Izzo, Coach K, and Calipari have in the past 33 seasons collectively.
You are moving the goalposts. You are trying to spin this into a debate between Beilein and Coach K, Cal, and Izzo. That is insane. Those are three of the best coaches in college basketball history.
Again, I’ll state my very simple to understand point. If an elite coach (Coach K) at an elite program (Duke) only makes 2 Elite 8s between 2005 and 2014, then how is it fair to demand/expect Beilein (a good, but not elite coach) at Michigan (a good, but not elite program) to make the Final 4 every season?
You complain about moving the goalposts and then you say people are expecting JB to “make the final 4 every season.” No rational fan has ever said that. But I think rational fans can hope and expect that we make the Sweet 16 most years which means that every 4-5 years you are capable of making a Final Four. What is wrong with wanting that for this program?
On Wagner:
So, exactly what type of player is Wagner? Rivals.com spoke with an NBA scout over the weekend and the scout said Moritz isn’t likely as tall as the 6-foot-10 he’s being listed at, but he is plenty big to play as a college four man. The scout said Wagner has good touch, is clever with the ball and that he competes on both ends of the floor.
“He’s not a guy that is on our radar as somebody who is going to be a pro right away,” said the scout. “He’s somebody that we see going to college and then we’ll see from there. I’d look at him as a top-20 to top-40 type recruit if he were in the States.”
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
Quoted for 93grad. (make sure you hit “show previous quotes”)
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
Well, if a Final 4 is the goal / expectation, then:
Coach Cal should be fired for his Kentucky team missing the NCAAT two seasons ago.
Coach K should have been fired before this season for only making it to the Elite 8 twice in 10 season between 2005 and 2014.
Coach Izzo should have been fired for missing the Final 4 four straight seasons.Do you see my point? Even the elite programs and coaches don’t have those lofty expectations for their coaches. Think about it… Coach K, at DUKE, made the Elite 8 twice in 10 seasons.
Well Izzo has made the sweet sixteen 7 of the past 8 years, Calipari 4 Final Fours in 6 years, Coach K 2 titles in 6 seasons. If you choose a super small sample size Beilein probably matches up well since he made a championship game and elite eight. Beilein in his long career still does not match up with your example. Beilein has missed the tournament more times in 8 seasons than Izzo, Coach K, and Calipari have in the past 33 seasons collectively.
You are moving the goalposts. You are trying to spin this into a debate between Beilein and Coach K, Cal, and Izzo. That is insane. Those are three of the best coaches in college basketball history.
Again, I’ll state my very simple to understand point. If an elite coach (Coach K) at an elite program (Duke) only makes 2 Elite 8s between 2005 and 2014, then how is it fair to demand/expect Beilein (a good, but not elite coach) at Michigan (a good, but not elite program) to make the Final 4 every season?
You complain about moving the goalposts and then you say people are expecting JB to “make the final 4 every season.” No rational fan has ever said that. But I think rational fans can hope and expect that we make the Sweet 16 most years which means that every 4-5 years you are capable of making a Final Four. What is wrong with wanting that for this program?
I absolutely agree with you. Go back and read the posts.
How many programs in the country can realistically expect to reach consecutive Final 4s on a consistent basis?I think there are many whether you look at an elite 8, then a final four like MSU did. Naturally if you reach 2 straight elite 8’s you have the ability to make a Final Four. This discussion is moot now though because Michigan didn’t even make the tourney. They took a few steps back this year.
You are going to say that you think there are many but then fail to name any? Kind of proves my point…
Well over the 2 or past 3 years Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona would fit the bill. Out of all those schools which one is in the most precarious position of not being in the hunt for that moving forward?
Well, if a Final 4 is the goal / expectation, then:
Coach Cal should be fired for his Kentucky team missing the NCAAT two seasons ago.
Coach K should have been fired before this season for only making it to the Elite 8 twice in 10 season between 2005 and 2014.
Coach Izzo should have been fired for missing the Final 4 four straight seasons.Do you see my point? Even the elite programs and coaches don’t have those lofty expectations for their coaches. Think about it… Coach K, at DUKE, made the Elite 8 twice in 10 seasons.
Well Izzo has made the sweet sixteen 7 of the past 8 years, Calipari 4 Final Fours in 6 years, Coach K 2 titles in 6 seasons. If you choose a super small sample size Beilein probably matches up well since he made a championship game and elite eight. Beilein in his long career still does not match up with your example. Beilein has missed the tournament more times in 8 seasons than Izzo, Coach K, and Calipari have in the past 33 seasons collectively.
You are moving the goalposts. You are trying to spin this into a debate between Beilein and Coach K, Cal, and Izzo. That is insane. Those are three of the best coaches in college basketball history.
Again, I’ll state my very simple to understand point. If an elite coach (Coach K) at an elite program (Duke) only makes 2 Elite 8s between 2005 and 2014, then how is it fair to demand/expect Beilein (a good, but not elite coach) at Michigan (a good, but not elite program) to make the Final 4 every season?
Who said the bar for Beilein is making the Final Four every year? I certainly never said that, who did? I still don’t understand the Duke example because Coach K won a title in 2010 and last evening. Unless you’re cherry picking a 10 year period?
I don’t think the bar for Beilein is very high most fans want to see them make the tourney every year because if you have a decent seed you could have a chance to make a run depending how things fall.
The Duke example is pretty clear. Coach K is ELITE (as evidenced by 2 titles in 6 years) and Duke is an ELITE program. Even an elite coach at an elite program missed the Elite 8 in 8 of 10 seasons before this one, then how is it fair to expect Final 4s or even Elite 8s every season from Beilein?
And now you are slowly starting to agree with me. When I said that “what programs can realistically expect to make the Final 4 in consecutive seasons”, you should have answered “few to none” because it is a pretty unrealistic expectation. Instead, you gave me this list of teams “Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan, Louisville, MSU, Duke, Arizona”. Silly, IMO.
“He will always favor the Donnals and McLimanses and Wagners.” What does this even mean–the Irish and the Italians? With the exception of our last two stellar starting big men–one of whom would have still been in the frontcourt if not for stupidity of the NCAA–he favors. . . guys who do not excel? Where is the logic in this? Doyle conveniently left out of the equation because he couldn’t fit in your brain at the moment you coughed this up? Opinions are cheap, but we are stretching for some new lows here. . . as if a (now Rivals) four-star with Wagner’s promise can simply be dismissed out of hand.
What really pisses me off about all of this criticism is that if McGary, Stauskas, and GRII had been here this year, or if Caris and Walton hadn’t been injured, this lame stuff would be nowhere to be found–FIVE GUYS WE WERE DOWN this year (hello!). Absent McGary, none of these guys would have fitted the bill with the anonymous basement savants on this board.
I’ll say this hunger doesn’t always mean poor or being from the inner city . Nik Stauskas was hungry not bc he had an upper middle class family but bc he was a white kid who wanted to known as a baller and not your typical white kid who is just a “shooter” . Trey was hungry ,over looked from his hometown team and always known as being Sully’s sidekick and best friend . He wanted that same recognition Jared was receiving so that formed a chip on his shoulder that drove him. Jalen Rose had a hunger also. I’m not saying have a team full of inner city kids but a mix of all races and social economic backgrounds that what college is about it molds you into a man accepting other folks who they are and learning from them.
In the 80s and 90s we had mixed background teams . Pelinka was from a upper middle class in a Chicago suburb ,Glen Rice was from Flint , Terry Mills From Romulus Travis Conlan Suburban St Clair Shore, Webber ,Rose, Talley, Mo Taylor ,and Traylor Detroit kids , Juwan was a southside Chi-town kid Jimmy King was from suburban Plano Louis Bullock was from a upper middle class in Temple hills Maryland. In those days players came from all different backgrounds. J.B has shifted to just one type imo. Being from the inner city I’ve worked with many kids a scholarship opens up doors for Kids from inner cities who may never had went to college if it wasn’t for there ability and they end up getting an education when there 1st motive was to make it to the pros. I have Jalen Rose and Mike Tally say this on many occasions . Personally I would like us to recruit Chicago again many greats came from there.
“I know someone asked before, but I don’t think it was answered. How is his name pronounced?”
Moritz is just like it sounds, mo- and ritz (my mom used to read me a famous German cartoon story about Max and Moritz when I was a kid). And the W in Wagner is pronounced like a V in German (as with the composer), but I expect announcers will just call him Wagner American-style.
I think Moe looks equal to or better than Benzing did. Benzing ended up being a very good player that had serious NBA consideration. Also, the other international player Beilein had interest in was Niels Giffey who ended up being a major contributor on a national championship team and a little bit of a look in the draft as well. I think you're looking at a contributor in Moe for sure. A guy that can play the 4 or 5. I think he has more athletecism than given credit for, and he is definitely not a Smotrycz level athlete. Seems to have a motor too.I hope you are right on all counts. It’s hard to tell with young Euros, but Moritz just does not seem to have any one elite skill.
He frankly sounds a lot like Chatman. They both have good length,but they aren’t very strong or athletic and they aren’t great shooters.
You really think Moe is as unathletic as Chatman…or Donnal?
That is not what I said. But frankly until we see him against real competition here in the states (i.e. not practice) we won’t know for sure how athletic or non-athletic he really is.
What’s his competition level for his club team in Germany? Is it any kind of decent competition?