Matt exactly, I am in sales as well just can't take that first no as a forever no.
That’s an oversimplification. First, you can’t pursue every elite recruit hot and heavy. You have to prioritize. In some cases, there is simply NO interest in Michigan. In other cases, academics are not in order. I know for a fact that we passed on a 6’ 10" top 50 recruit because he was not close to qualifying, let alone handling Michigan academics. We did not back off on Swanigan, even though his interest was low. We just can’t get him on campus. The elite recruits we are losing are going to Duke, Kentucky and the like. Izzo is also losing out to Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. It is what it is.
It is what it is? That solves he problem right? Please show me where we have targeted BIGS that can come in and contribute right away other than maybe McGary? You may have info I do not but based on research of the sites I check they simply have not. As for other positions those that gave the greatest contribution were over achievers to their ranking, Burke, Hardaway, Stauskus, Lavert as well as others before them.
In the '15 class alone, we targeted Stone, Zimmerman, Swanigan and Ellenson. All of them considered Michigan but eliminated Michigan when they narrowed their lists (Swanigan is theoretically still in play). In the '14 class, the elite bigs were guys like Okafor and Alexander. Same two Izzo went after and came up empty. You can’t make a recruit or his advisers listen. You seem to assume that the reason we haven’t landed an elite big in the last couple of classes is that the staff is just passing on guys who we might land if only we tried hard enough. What’s the evidence for that?
There are four of the top ten big men still in play for the class of 2015; previously mentioned Swanigan and Zimmerman as well as Diamond Stone and Thomas Bryant.
There are four of the top ten big men still in play for the class of 2015; previously mentioned Swanigan and Zimmerman as well as Diamond Stone and Thomas Bryant.
So they’re in play. They’ve also eliminated Michigan. None of them have visited.
I think that Coach B needs to look at playing 2 true big men on the court together next year. Having a true PF and a true C in will help them compete against the better teams. I like the skill set Donnal, Doyle, and Wilson bring. Possibly having Beilfeldt return does not hurt either. I think that they need to play a true C and PF together to compete. Also, where was Donnal in thursdays game vs Illinois? Why didn’t he play?
I think that Coach B needs to look at playing 2 true big men on the court together next year. Having a true PF and a true C in will help them compete against the better teams. I like the skill set Donnal, Doyle, and Wilson bring. Possibly having Beilfeldt return does not hurt either. I think that they need to play a true C and PF together to compete. Also, where was Donnal in thursdays game vs Illinois? Why didn't he play?
Donnal didn’t play because they liked what they were getting from Max, which is tough to argue with.
I think that Coach B needs to look at playing 2 true big men on the court together next year. Having a true PF and a true C in will help them compete against the better teams. I like the skill set Donnal, Doyle, and Wilson bring. Possibly having Beilfeldt return does not hurt either. I think that they need to play a true C and PF together to compete. Also, where was Donnal in thursdays game vs Illinois? Why didn't he play?
I would like to see how big of a list you can come up with of college teams that play with a 4 that for the most part plays in the post.
Darn near everyone is trying to space and stretch you out anymore.
Most of the top teams in the Big Ten aren’t using “big” 4 men:
IU - Williams 6’7
MSU - Dawson 6’6
OSU - Thompson 6’7
Maryland - Nickens 6’6 or Layman 6’8
Kentucky has 7 players at 6ftt8 or taller, Virgina the same, Gonzaga has 5 with 3 of them getting 20 plus minutes, Duke has 4 with 2 getting 25 plus minutes. Do I like Coach B yes, do I think that Doyle and Donnal have upside yes, has Max shocked pretty much everyone at times this year yes. But…to say that that length is not important as more and more teams spread the floor?
The game of basketball is about match ups and athletic long players create problems for those they face on both ends of the court.
Most of the top teams in the Big Ten aren't using "big" 4 men:
IU - Williams 6'7
MSU - Dawson 6'6
OSU - Thompson 6'7
Maryland - Nickens 6'6 or Layman 6'8
In fairness, don’t necessarily think his gripe is about size per se, but the rebounding ability of said players. In other words, I think he wants a traditional PF that isn’t a liability on the glass irrelevant of size.
John Beilein isn’t going to change his base offense. You aren’t going to see a guy at the four that can’t handle, pass and shoot the ball – at least by choice.
That being said, he obviously wants a strong rebounder at that spot. It’s just a very hard position to recruit for. Would have loved a player like Jae’Sean Tate (who Michigan offered) at the four spot in this offense even if he can’t really shoot it yet.
John Beilein isn't going to change his base offense. You aren't going to see a guy at the four that can't handle, pass and shoot the ball -- at least by choice.
That being said, he obviously wants a strong rebounder at that spot. It’s just a very hard position to recruit for. Would have loved a player like Jae’Sean Tate (who Michigan offered) at the four spot in this offense even if he can’t really shoot it yet.
I get it trust me… that is why I often surf the Euro websites because it seems like many of those players have the skill set that Coach B would have interest.
Kid is a great fit anywhere. Love his game and imagine next year when he gets out of Kaminsky’s shadow. He’s much more versatile than a classic post guy at the four though, IMO.
Kentucky has 7 players at 6ftt8 or taller, Virgina the same, Gonzaga has 5 with 3 of them getting 20 plus minutes, Duke has 4 with 2 getting 25 plus minutes. Do I like Coach B yes, do I think that Doyle and Donnal have upside yes, has Max shocked pretty much everyone at times this year yes. But.......to say that that length is not important as more and more teams spread the floor?
The game of basketball is about match ups and athletic long players create problems for those they face on both ends of the court.
No issue with length at all. He was requesting a traditional post 4. I was asking if he could come up with a list of teams that play that way still.
Everyone is looking for a 4 with length and skill to spread you out it seems like. I don’t pretend to watch every game from every conference. There just seems to be a lot of perimeter 4’s out there now.
Our main concern isn’t rebounding or length.
Rebounding has always been poor.
We can’t score the ball.
75ppg the previous two seasons and now we’re at 63ppg.
Our turnovers have been about the same, though in part to a slower game this year.
Our 3 pt shooting went from two years being in the Top 25 statistically down to 140th.
Assists were about the same the two previous years (72nd and 63rd) and now we’re 248th in that nation.
I’m less worried about getting a “rebounding 4 man” as I am guys that can put the ball in the hoop.
Kentucky has 7 players at 6ftt8 or taller, Virgina the same, Gonzaga has 5 with 3 of them getting 20 plus minutes, Duke has 4 with 2 getting 25 plus minutes. Do I like Coach B yes, do I think that Doyle and Donnal have upside yes, has Max shocked pretty much everyone at times this year yes. But.......to say that that length is not important as more and more teams spread the floor?
The game of basketball is about match ups and athletic long players create problems for those they face on both ends of the court.
No issue with length at all. He was requesting a traditional post 4. I was asking if he could come up with a list of teams that play that way still.
Everyone is looking for a 4 with length and skill to spread you out it seems like. I don’t pretend to watch every game from every conference. There just seems to be a lot of perimeter 4’s out there now.
Matt we probably agree on more than we don’t, I probably did not make my point very well. To me it just seems our 2-3 & 4 are pretty much interchangeable, some just slightly better than others at one thing or another. The only one that seems to excel at all parts of the game (Caris) is out for the season.
MattR I was not pretending to watch every game of every conference, I just thought it is an idea that could work given some of the players on the team.