Nick would never be a PG in my estimation because he could never guard a PG. Running the O through Nick is one thing, calling him a PG is something else.
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Yesā¦ I already mentioned the mlive article. That article says he can āplay a little pgā but then says he might play a Stu Douglas role. If you donāt remember, Douglas was not what most people would call a pg. As I explained, Beileinās actions tell the real story.
As JJ3 said, this discussion isnāt even about Stauskas being a functional PG or not (I also prefer lead guard for him rather than pg but whatever), as he played the 2/3 when he was on the team. This is about why nobody here should be surprised that weāre waiting on Cohill based on Beileinās entire tenure here.
On your last point, having seen both Poole and Cohill live a week ago at the Elite Camp, if weāre comparing PG skills right now, IMO, Poole has many more such skills than does Cohill. Cohill is a class younger, so he may well develop those skills, but IMO, he is not a PG, or even an emergency PG at this timeāhe doesnāt have the handle to play PG right now, and his vision needs some work to be the guy with the ball in his hands more than anyone else. Actually, Poole has both of those thingsāI donāt think heās a PG because I donāt think heās quick enough off the bounce to be our #1 ball handler (though certainly enough to be #2). . Donāt get me wrongāIād offer Cohill in a minute, and I loved his gameābut Iād do so as an undersized wing who can attack the basket, shoot and play with a really high motor and athleticism, not as a maybe PG down the road. If he becomes one, thatās great, but that wouldnāt be the focus.
Iāve seen Eastern live too. Heās a pure PG who can play other positions, not a wing who could play PG.
Iām not sure I understand the Simpson going to be 20 in February so his ceiling is limited comment. MAAR was 20 when he played his first game, and he certainly seems to have improved a ton since he got here. Ditto Mitch. I can name a ton of othersāin particular, guys who went to prep for a fifth year before going to a big time schoolāwith ceilings which werenāt limited by the fact that they were slightly older than their class counterparts. Actually, Simpson, as a small guy, would be far less likely to be dominant because of his age than would a bigger guy who would have the advantage of having a year plus of body development and the ability to overpower people.
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Cohill sounds like a good replacement for Rahk since thatās who he would essentially be replacing. They clearly want a 2-guard in the '18 class with the offers to Carmody and Ryan so why do you think the hesitancy to offer Cohill? Do you think they prefer Ryan and Carmody because they want a taller player whoās a better shooter or do you think Cohill views himself as strictly a PG?
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Holding kids back a year in school is a common practice among sports stage dads and moms. They think the extra year gives them time to develop physically and garner better offers or school admissions. Even affluent parents do it. http://deadspin.com/why-rich-lacrosse-parents-are-making-their-kids-repeat-1570381983
Beilein has always been partial to recruits that are young for their class age wise. It usually belies a greater opportunity for enhanced development with the skills you already possess. Hence a potential breakout star with continued program coaching-instruction and further physical maturation. Caris is obviously exhibit A.
Being āolderā for your class certainly doesnāt preclude you from becoming a solid player in the program and developing more. But IMO it is reasonable to wonder if a recruit has maxed out physically and has a limited ceiling for improvement going forward. All about future projection.
Itās one thing to dominate HS as a more mature 19 year old than the majority of your competition. But how that translates to college is always an educated crap shoot.
Iām genuinely optimistic about Simpson, but he is obviously limited physically with an open question as to how productive he will eventually become.
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And do you have any exhibit B, C, etc. under Beilein to actually back that up or should we just listen to your sample size of one?
I get thatāI watched it to some extent when my kids were growing up. I think, though, that holding kids back has more impact when the kids are younger than it does when the kids reach college. As Chezaroo said, there are certainly kids who are young for their class who develop and get stronger such as Caris, but there are also counter-examples such as Kam, who got overwhelmed physically and with the speed of the game early, lost confidence, and never recovered. Personally, I think that smaller kids like Simpson donāt get the same hold back edge that others do because physical maturity and strength means less at their position.
I canāt think of any examples off hand, but Coach Beilein has spoken many time about recruiting kids who are young for their grade. Definitely something he takes into consideration.
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Yeah I know that he does that, but the fact that thereās only one example of that having a noticeable impact makes its effectiveness questionable, especially with a guy like Simpson who doesnāt really use his physicality as an advantage. Iād argue heās just as close to his ceiling as he would be if he was a year younger. Fundamentals like shooting, ball handling, passing, etc. donāt have to do with physically imposing yourself and are independent of age when itās only a one year difference.
I think age is a consideration in terms of evaluating potential. Caris, Donnal and Morgan are some of the names I remember being mentioned.
I think the height may be part of the equation w/regard to Cohill. Simpson (listed 6-0), Brooks (6-1), Poole (6-3) will be on the roster. If you add Cohill (6-2) you may pigeon-hole rotations & defensive match-ups more than you would with Ryan (6-5) or Carmody (6-4) ā both potentially tall enough to guard B1G caliber SFs or SGs.
In the conversation about Beileinās past recruiting, remember that Hardaway was 6-4/6-5, Stauskas 6-5, LeVert 6-5/6-6 ā¦ each had PG-type ball skills to fit very well into Beileinās 2-guard offensive system at a height to guard the ā2ā or ā3ā spot.
Plus, quite honestly, Carmody & Ryan have more impressive offer lists than Cohill right now; not a 100% indicator of talent, but it does indicate that other power-conference programs seem to be evaluating Carmody & Ryan higher than Cohill?
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Beilein has been partial to players that are either younger or older than their class. Spike, Mitch, MAAR, Dawkins were all older and he pursued Bailey, who would have waited two years to enroll. True that they were mostly late adds, but so were Caris and Mo.
Going off memory I think THJ, GR3, Levert, and Wagner were all considered young for their class. I think any scout doing a deep evaluation of a player uses age and the individuals growth patterns as an evaluation tool. Rightfully soā¦
Dj and Kam too.
Using age as an evaluation tool is one thingāall things being approximately equal, taking a kid who is young for his class is a positive thing. However, thatās different from assuming that kids who are not young, or even who are old for their class, have maxed outāa score of guys like MAAR and Mitch in a Michigan context argue to the contrary. Like everything else in recruiting, itās a function of case-by-case evaluation.
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Yup. A deep evaluation really is on a case by case basis with many factors.
No 18-22 year old kid is maxed out. Athletes usually hit their prime after 25 and before 35ā¦I think Mitch was overrated in high school because he was older. He did not make super impressive athletic strides at MichiganāI think due to his already advanced age/ physical maturity. His improvements were mostly mental adjustments to a game that was happening much faster and with bigger playersā¦Not sure Mitch is the best example for what you are trying to argue against but I see your point in general and I think it is valid.
MAARās development opportunities have been unique and he has made the most of them. He was thrust into playing time, without the adjustment period costs being taken into considerationābecause there was not much choiceāmostly due to his teammates getting injuredā¦MAAR is developing but I think there might be an illusion going on. MAAR was more solid from day 1 than most people were/ are willing to realize. As people become aware that MAAR Is not who they thought he was they attribute it to his development rather than to the fact that they messed up his evaluation as well as many of their re-evaluations of him along the way.
Cohill up to #57 on ESPN updated rankings
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/216441/dwayne-cohill
Man I really like Cohill. Really hope we find room for him or that it becomes clear whether Brooks can play a starting PG. If Brooks is destined to be a back up PG or play SG, i think 2 years removed from X is about the right timing to pull another PG.
No knock on Brooks, especially since I havenāt seen him live. But knowing what I know now, I think we will regret that decision down the road based on the limited film Iāve seen.
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