2018 - PG - David DeJulius (Commit)


#546

Not everyone here is doing it, but shitting on a teenager who seems, at least, deserving of the award because he happens to be going to a school you don’t like strikes me as pretty objectionable. Having seen nothing but highlight videos of Loyer, DeJulius, and Johns, I’ll just say I like our guys, but Loyer sure seems like he can shoot.


#547

Yeah if all three of them were coming to Michigan next year, my vote would have gone: Loyer, Johns, Dejulius


#548

#549

Based on what?


#550

I think when two or three players are similar in talent, skill and statistical production, winning should matter in the vote. Dejulius’ early playoff exit hurts, especially when Loyer is still playing and coming off a title with a 90-6 record over his high school career.

Johns I think is the guy who could have won based on overwhelming talent and potential alone, and he has had a great year (I grew up in the Lansing area and am a huge fan of Johns) but EL lost games to Okemos twice and Grand Ledge during the year that shocked me, despite big performances from BJ every time.

I just don’t think there was a runaway choice this year, and when in doubt, I’d give it to the guy who leads the #1 team in the state and who is coming off a title. And if he was coming to Michigan, I don’t think there would be any second-guessing of that choice at all.

As far as who I’d want in college, my list goes: Johns, Dejulius, huge drop off, Loyer.


#551

Not that people have been overly rude here, but I just can’t wrap my mind around the idea, espoused elsewhere mostly, that Loyer is somehow obviously undeserving. If Johns would have won I would expect everyone to say “congrats”. If DeJulius would have won I would expect everyone to say “congrats”. Loyer won. I say congratulations to Loyer!

I am very happy with getting Johns and DD instead of Loyer. Good luck to him at State because he and that team will need it against us.


#552

Tbh, it’s the narrative of it that annoys me. Loyer has been the golden boy and was pre-ordained this award since he was a freshmen basically. And A LOT of that comes from politics and the relationships his coach/dad has. By comparison, DD is a guy who has clearly worked insanely hard to get himself to this level (he went from a nothing shooter to an absolutely killer pull-up guy in two years), to the point where is an obviously better high school player than Loyer. And yet it just doesn’t matter because he doesn’t have the connections with the suburban schools and Fife.

If it was just Johns vs Loyer, then whatever. But I feel bad for David.

Edit: Not saying that Loyer doesn’t work hard, but DD’s meteoric rise clearly shows a work ethic that is next level.


#553

I have already stated that Loyer is very deserving, but the margin of the vote is rather surprising. Was there really that much separation among the three?


#554

I believe that DD will use this as a motivation to be better at the college level and he will learn from a great teacher in the next few ywars.


#555

FWIW voting is 5-3-1 points you vote for three out of five candidates. That may make the spread seem larger.


#556

The preordained idea would make sense if Loyer did nothing but I’m not really sure what else he could do to prove to you that he’s deserving of the award if averaging 26 ppg, hitting shots at an eFG rate of 60%, shooting 90% from the line among other things isn’t enough. Add in the winning and the fact the he’s done it against every opponent he’s gone against makes me wonder why you don’t think he’s deserving based on accomplishments alone. Not sure what else you want the kid to do to prove it to you. I can promise you however that if DD had the same high school career as Loyer he would have won Mr. Basketball without a question.


#557

I also don’t buy the idea that a “Loyer narrative” is the mere product of fathers/coaches/ connections to the media or the biproduct of simply being the beneficiary of a stacked team because honestly although Clarkston is a “complete team”, without naming names, there are some overrated players on Clarkston…The Loyer narrative instead, writes itself whenever someone: a) looks at his stats; b) looks at his accomplishments; and c) watches him play. If anything there was a counternarrative that he was somehow undeserving—and that counter narrative is not based in reality, imo.


#558

DD averaged 28-8-8 and carried a meh cast to being considered a top ten team in the state while playing against as good of competition as you can in Michigan. Idk each guys shooting percentages, but it seems to me like Dave had a better individual season based on that.

All accomplishments are in comparison to everyone else up for the award.


#559

I think they all would be deserving although i am not sure what the criteria for the award is. But I grew up in the City of Detroit and it has long been considered a political award period. Loyer’s edge is that he happens to go to the school thats probably the best team in the state. Would that team still be the best with either of the other two instead of Loyer. The kids obviously care about the award. But to me, does not move the needle or guarantee success at the next level.


#560

I made a comment above that I meant in a light hearted way, but it may have been perceived as less than kind, and perhaps, critical, so I should apologize for it. I certainly believe based on what I have read here and elsewhere that Foster Loyer is very deserving of the Mr. Basketball Award, and that he is a fine example of what we want Michigan High School athletes to be. It sounds like, in addition to being an outstanding basketball player, he is a great student and a fine young man.

I also know that, like all high school awards, politics are played in the process of choosing these awards. When I voted, long ago, as a member of the BCAM, the truth is, I had almost NEVER seen the player before. I voted for Mark Macon back in the eighties and I HAD seen him play, but usually I had not seen the players I voted for play. Coaches are just too busy coaching their own kids. I stand by my assertion that, perhaps, 90% of the coaches who voted have never seen Foster Loyer, or DD, or Brandon Johns, play.

Mr. Basketball is a high school award and it is important to the kids, and I guess to us fans, too. It’s something, perhaps the winner will tell his grandkids about. Winning the award doesn’t, however, mean that the winner will be more successful at the collegiate level than those who finished second or third. I have personally coached a Mr. ______ Award winner in another sport, and I STILL brag about him 30 or so years later! He was an exceptional young man, a great student, and a fine citizen. Frankly, he wasn’t successful in his sport at the college level. He went to Michigan, and didn’t play. There were others that year who were more successful. I coached another player who was a runner up twice for the Mr. ______Award in that same sport. He had been a three time Dream Team player and was more successful in his sport in college but certainly not a star. He did turn professional in his sport but that only lasted a short while because he couldn’t make any money. Both of my young men went on to get great educations and are very successful in life and in their professions, one an award winning attorney and the other a PhD, who actually taught at Ohio State for a couple of years. Don’t throw anything at me! :smiley: But they were not highly successful in their sports after high school. That’s part of why I believe so much in the SCHOLAR part of the term scholar athlete!

I have been on all-state selection committees, and even chaired the committee for a couple of years (not basketball). I’ve run MHSAA Tournaments and served consecutive, two year terms on the MHSAA Scholar Athlete of the Year Committee, an incredible honor and privilege. So, I’m a believer in these kids, and I congratulate Foster Loyer for winning the award. But he may not, necessarily, be a better college player than the other finalists. He MAY be, but I’m really happy we are getting David Dejulius and Brandon Johns. Mr. Basketball is a high school award, it is billed as “the best senior basketball player in the state.” Foster Loyer will tell his kids and his grandkids about his exploits on the basketball floor in high school, and that he won Mr. Basketball. I hope he tells them that he was a good student, too. He’s to be commended and I congratulate him. I hope David Dejulius goes on to tell his kids that he was a great high school basketball player, and a good student, too. AND that he went on to be an All-American at Michigan. I’m glad we got him!


#561

Never seen these guys in person. Only on video. Based on that alone, glad we were able to get the guys that we did. Having said that, based on what you all are saying, have no problems with him getting the award. I will say, though, there have been times, more so in the last 10 - 15 years that seem to make it clear that there’s much more to the voting than just on court performance.

When the state’s only McDonalds all-American (and a good student I might add), finishes third in the voting (2010)…just sayin’. Have to take it for what it is. Congrats to the young man.


#562

Are you referring to Buckley?


#563

Ray McCallum.


#564

I agree with a lot of what’s been said already. The one thing I will say is that the award isn’t meant as a projection for college success, no more than the Wooden award is. And while politics can play a role it’s not that simple either. In a four year stretch you had Manny Harris, Derrick Nix (really weak class) and Keith Appling all won from Detroit. Since then Justin Tillman narrowly missed out and Kay Felder finished 4th in a loaded class, and Kamari Newman and Greg Elliot from East English finished 5th and 3rd respectively, but there really hasn’t been the star level talent there used to be when you had guys like Jalen Rose, Voshon Leonard and Howard Eisley all playing on one team. If Josh Jackson would have stayed he would have won the vote in a landslide. In my opinion, more than ‘politics’ the things that help your chances more than anything with Mr. Basketball are (1) going to UM or MSU (2) playing at the Breslin as an underclassman and playing well and to an extent (3) not having someone to split the vote with you (IE - Two kids from the same region). And none of that matters if you don’t produce, but usually if you’ve met criteria 1 and 2 you’re producing at a very high level. Outside of Derrick Nix you could go back quite a bit and they all produced outstanding numbers in high school. Loyer, DD, and Johns all had outstanding years, but I think the way Loyer played on the big stage last year in front of a lot of voters and then to follow it up with another excellent season is what gave him the edge. And again, none of this guarantees college success, no more than the Wooden award guarantees NBA success or the Heisman guarantees NFL success (hell sometimes that doesn’t even guarantee being drafted in the NFL in some years).


#565

Congrats to Loyer. Congrats to Johns and Dave for performing well enough to be in the running. If the face to face meetings continue to be dominated/won by DD then I’m fine with Loyer winning all of the “voted on by…” awards he can wrap his arms around.